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Thanks for doing that, Firebird! I shall follow the discussion closely.
My thinking with regard to what "Whenever you are able to use a card with the keyword botany" would be in line with Kornetmuse -- "When this plant can be seen on your Terrain card". Othewise, say your only botany cards were red seaweed and the terrocokus one
, could you only turn terrocokus into red seaweed when you
that provides the poison resoucse
That would seem overly restrictive.
have an item to craft that requires poison?
I had another thought to add to the confusion:
What if you have red seaweed (and it's the only plant visible plant on your terrain) and another botany card that has a brown crafting effect (sorry, I don't know the codes for the proper icons), does the act of using the latter card "instead" through Keelan's ability mean that you no longer apply the effect of the red seaweed to get the vine resource? I would think not, since if you re-examine the game state, the red seaweed is still visible and so that botany card is still usable. Which leads me to the conclusion that each usage of Keelan's ability puts kindof a copy of another botany card "in suspense" as you said, waiting for something to come along that could actually make use of it. And since everything in the game is built around the concept of a "turn" that encapsulates an "action", I would have to assume that the intent was that these suspended abilities expire after the current turn is over. This also leads me to believe that you could indeed discard a vigilance card and then just not make use of the suspended ability.
Who'd have thought this ability could be so complex?!
Posted - Edited
I'm fairly sure that the answer to 1) is No and the answer to 2) is Yes. My group really wanted to have 1) be Yes though, so we rain it that way for a couple of actions, but I think I'm gonna suggest not continuing that usage. Still, any other opinions ('specially from a dev! nudge nudge) would be welcome!
I'm curious whether there has been an official ruling on the specifics of how Keelan's ability functions... I shall elaborate with an example:
Assuming these things are true:
Apologies for the necro, but it seemed to make more sense than starting a new thread.
Relatedly, again in A Prison of Clouds, if you have a situation where there is a revealed terrain (white) card both to the north and south of the balloon's current position, and the current weather card makes it easier to leave to the south, can you pay the cost for south but then go north, as it's connected?
I believe that the rules would allow this, however it means following the rules as written and possibly not as intended.
Also, it's not explicit in the white box rules supplement, but I assume you cannot pick a direction on the weather card where there is not currently a revealed terrain card, meaning the "loophole" I mentioned cold not always be used.
-- to me, this means
... you must either discard 1 card with the keywords stamina or will from your hand or inventory for each state card you have in hand, or discard only 1 card from your inventory and take a 101 card.
if you don't have any stamina or will card, you can take the first choice an discard 0 cards and not take a 101, since it's a free choice between two options.
-- though this is worded in the same way as Overburdened, it somehow doesn't feel right to take the first choice
Each character on the active player's Terrain card must either discard 1 card with the keyword clothing from their inventory, or discard all cards with the keywords stamina or will they have in hand & take a 102 card.
if you have no clothing cards, since thematically those would be the way you avoid freezing. I wonder whether this should be worded more like "you must discard 1 clothing card if you have any, otherwise discard your stamina and will cards and take a 102."
Okay, yes, that makes a lot of sense actually! I was apparently trying to read way more into it that necessary. Thanks for making me realise my silliness.
There are some temporary events that state "The active player must perform the following action alone" and others that use the phrase "Only the active player is forced to take the following action". Since all (I think) actions on temporary events are mandatory to begin with, the latter phrasing seems to be redundant unless "only the active player" means the exact same thing as "the active player alone" in this context, which then begs the question of why use the different verbiage? We have been playing both of these types of cards the same way (the active player is the only one involved in the action), but I'm curious if there's been an official statement about the matter.
Flavor rules say definitely yes.
You nailed it -- that's exactly where my head is at. We've been tending to play these slightly ambiguous things in a way that doesn't make our lives easier, but I do wonder what B & L actually envisioned in this case, if it even came up..
I don't have the cards in front of me, but this situation came up during a game earlier: we had the G1334
weather card and the
bonus card. G1334 says something along the lines of
Duke, go fetch
. If you are adjacent
any character on the terrain card where the tornado is has access to these resources: bamboo, vine, foliage, wood (I think)
to the tornado's terrain card, does Duke go fetch those 4 resources? I would think it would work that way, as it would if there were a permanent event adding resources to the terrain card, it's just that the wording about characters having to be on the terrain card to get the resources makes me wonder.
Okay, that makes sense. If it weren't for this recent business about Anjika I wouldn't have even thought twice about it (and indeed was initially playing it as you both suggest), due to the golden rule, but that's now making me question my gut feelings. Thanks for putting me back on track -- I shall play it as written!
Yeah, that's what I thought, and the way I've been playing it, it just didn't seem to be covered explicitly in the rules (except I guess by its very omission, since the rules are very comprehensive...) so just wanted see what the consensus was. Thank you both!
This card says:
Randomly discard 1 card from the action deck. If it is a skill (blue hand) card, nothing happens, discard this. If it is a curse (skull) card, each involved character takes a 104 card.
Since we are playing with the Flying Roots, we have non-skill, non-curse cards in the action deck. I don't think it makes sense to treat the roots encounter cards as curses, but they are also not skills... so I would say that if you randomly discard "the strangest encounter", then nothing would happen. But am curious what others think, since the root encounters are kindof intended to be negative like curses (since they offer no successes and can fail your action). Anyway, I think this card would make more sense if it were worded "If it is a curse card, each involved character takes a 104 card, otherwise discard this."
Can you craft one of your character-specific items and then give it to someone else (to create a new item stack or combine with an existing one), since it's no longer in anyone's hand? For example, could Dmitri craft his Bamboo Armor and then give it to Eliot to wear?
Posted - Edited
If you choose the side of the discard pile holder that says "A thought for those who died on the first expedition", you get a locked 1/1 pray action that you can take whenever a grave is visible on your terrain card, which says (on success): "Each involved character any discard any number of cards with the keyword will from their hand and/or inventory. For each card discarded this way, randomly take 2 cards from the Discard Pile and shuffle them back into the Action Deck."
My question is: are the discarded will cards intended to be eligible to be shuffled back in, or are they only discarded after you pick the cards? For example, if your Discard Pile contains only 1 card when you use this action, does it end up with 1 card in it (the will card you discarded) or 0?
The similarity of this effect to Anjika Patel's ability, combined with the fact that Bruno stated that Anjika's ability was not intended to allow you to choose the same card that you discarded makes me think that once cannot shuffle back in the discarded will card, but I'm interested to know how others play this.
Posted - Edited
They mean that for each of those resources you have access to (and decide to use) when performing the action, for example
, you may reduce the card cost by 2. It the exact same mechanic as is used when crafting items.
from adjoining permanent event cards and/or single-use items like Sharp Stone
That is my preferred fix also.
Granted I have not yet played with Anjika, but I would think that removing her ability to clear cards out of item stacks would be a significant enough nerf as to make her not worth choosing to begin with. So I would agree with this -- "a different card" instead of "1 card".
Posted - Edited
Okay, I see what you mean. Perhaps this section from page 18 of the rules needs some clarification:
Once the Exploration card has been resolved and discarded, the active player must put a XXX Adventure card into play, replacing the Exploration card.
I always interpreted it as "on the active player's Terrain card". I guess it could be ambiguous if you're looking at it in an abstract way, but in the context of your explorers actually walking from one area to another, it wouldn't make any sense to look at the arrow on some other terrain card that just happens to touch the exploration card on another side.
If you read the example on page 18, it says
... Bruno takes the 009 Adventure card, associated with the arrow visible on his Terrain card...
This makes it more clear, but it should be in the actual rules text I think.