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Posted
A kickstarter first edition that hasn't had the upgrade pack added in will be missing a few dividers. (Character skills, 051, a couple others I think?)

A kickstarter first edition that has had the upgrade pack is tough to tell from other editions. It's unlikely you will see a first edition of any kind, they are quite rare. Virtually every copy of T7C on the market right now is some flavor of kickstarter second edition.

A kickstarter second edition that hasn't had the replacement cards added in might have miscut cards that are wider than normal, or color matching issues with action cards, particularly the named curse cards being identifiable from other action cards. (Color matching issues of varying severity were common, miscuts were uncommon but certainly happened.)

A kickstarter second edition that has had the replacement cards added in is tough to tell from an upgraded first edition, or a second edition that wasn't affected by these problems.

Some kickstarter second editions came from the factory with the replacement cards already in the box. These have a big gold sticker on the outside of the shrinkwrap, so if a game is new in shrink you can tell if it has replacement cards or not very easily. On an opened copy it can be almost impossible to tell.

Because SP printed replacements for every card in the black box, and sent them for free to so many people, some of these replacement card sets wind up on ebay. They're pretty obviously not a complete copy -- usually they're in a smaller white box with just the cards and no minis or card trays. The many missing components can all be improvised, so people play with them anyway, and it's a decent way for people that own Classic to get the Kickstarter-exclusive cards.

Some ebay replacement card sets are actually the replacement cards, but some people kept the replacements and ebayed their original second edition cards repacked into the replacement card box. If you're looking for a replacement set to upgrade Classic to kickstarter edition, or replace misprinted cards in a second edition that doesn't have them, be aware that both types exist.

The new, non-kickstarter Classic edition comes with a smaller brown box with only two trays instead of the large black box with three trays. It's missing the Frankenstein and Lovecraft characters and the Dark Chest of the Damned curse, and has about a hundred fewer cards in total. There are minor compatibility issues between Classic and What Goes Up Must Come Down. I don't know how many of these are in the wild yet, but they won't be hard to identify if you see one.
Posted
Alright so. There's a lot of expansions to check. Fortunately each one has a unique letter in the card ID, so they're easy to sort.
Here's those letters for every expansion, plus a few cards you can check for in Preparation & Storage and in the adventure deck. (The 3-digit numbers given are Adventure card numbers that only come from that expansion.)

A. Base box
You definitely have this, but there's quite a few versions of it. Figuring out what version you have is complicated, I'll make another post.
Cards to check: The Voracious Goddess Curse/Clue, 000
Also: Fire minis, a big black box

B. The Icy Maze
Cards to check: The Icy Maze Curse/Clue, 449

C. The Forbidden Sanctuary
Cards to check: The Forbidden Sanctuary Curse/Clue, 450

D. The Swamp of Madness
Cards to check: The Swamp of Madness Curse/Clue, 621

E. Path of Repentance
Cards to check: Pocket Watch, 500

F. Fear the Devourers
Cards to check: 480
Also: Worm minis

G. Facing the Elements
Cards to check: 549
Also: Weather standees

H. BGG Promo cards
Cards to check: 586

I. Comfort Creatures
Cards to check: 802

J. The Flying Roots
Cards to check: The Strangest Encounter!, 815
Also: Plant minis

K. What Goes Up, Must Come Down
Cards to check: A Prison of Clouds Curse/Clue, 999
Also: Barge and Balloon minis, a big white box
Posted
No problem. Let me know if you have any other questions.
Posted
In short: yes.

"Replacement cards for the 7th Continent "Second Edition" Base Game" is all the cards from the kickstarter black box, including the hundred or so that aren't in Classic.

The bulk of the content in the black box and not classic is 2 (very strong) characters and 1 (decent) curse. There's also the
goat
card, which is required to complete one of the
white box
curses, and a bunch of nice but fairly unimportant details, some fog cards and stuff I think?

There were a few things in the black box that aren't in either classic or the replacement cards:
-minis (and standees for the 2 new characters)
-an adorable little magnifying glass the size and shape of a card (with no specific in-game function)
-the discard pile holder (This is the only piece with game rules you'll be missing.)
-a larger box with a third card tray (needed if you get many expansions; if you sleeve everything still not quite enough space)


So if you go the route of getting a replacement card set:
-You barely even need a copy of Classic, all you're using it for is a rulebook, dividers, dice, an incomplete set of standees, and (optimistically) the box and card trays.
-You'll have to improvise standees for Lovecraft and Frankenstein, probably just use another character's piece or print something out, no big deal.
-You'll likely outgrow the Classic box and trays have to figure out a storage solution. Maybe not right away, but if you start hunting down expansions, it will happen.
-You might want to print out the discard pile holder ability. (No need to make an actual holder, it isn't really any more convenient than an ordinary discard pile. I use mine for Banished cards since that pile gets big and there's rarely any need to look through it.)


Getting the replacement cards probably adds less than getting an expansion would but I do think it's worth it.
Posted
I believe I've found an omission from the official fan-kit -- the advanced skill background..

The advanced skill background is slightly different from other actions, it has little XP wreaths on the left side. I didn't even realize it until someone pointed it out to me, so y'know, I can use the basic action without feeling too bad about it, but if it could be added, that'd be amazing! 8-)
Posted
Keep searching in those spots. I think you're looking for a gold card from the one with the sword?
Posted
Looks lovely!
Posted
So, apparently, the recommended order has you do the WGUMCD curses last of all. My mistake.

Crystal's Song, Voracious Goddess, and Offering to the Guardians are recommended early because they're quite a bit easier than other curses.

After that, it's all about the same. I don't really know why they chose the order they did.
Posted - Edited
Icy Maze and Sanctuary add very little that isn't a part of their curse. A small handful of 050s and advanced skills, nothing important. I don't know which exact cards it is but I don't think it's anything major.

The recommended order of the curses means almost nothing. You can play the curses in absolutely any order.

Some curses like Voracious Goddess give you more straightforward clues. Most others expect you to have some knowledge of the map, but you can get that knowledge from any other curse, or just by wandering around. The curses don't have a story that flows from one to the next, or clues you learn in one curse to apply in another one. At most, you have to remember where you've seen a symbol before. The only reason Icy Maze and Sanctuary are after the WGUMCD curses is because they're longer/harder/easier to die on.

Going from Classic to WGUMCD does have one other small issue though. Of the hundred-and-something cards removed from the kickstarter edition to classic, a single one
the goat
matters to a WGUMCD curse
Armageddon.
This is pretty easily fixed by
printing out a goat and adding it to the 150s table by sleeving it in front of an Empty Handed or something
, but if you don't, as far as I know, that curse is impossible to even start in Classic.
Posted
BrunoS wrote:
Hi all,

My apologies for the very long response time.

When it comes to this specific thread about card 180, the intent for this card is “Immediately after you take this card from the Adventure Deck and reveal it, shuffle it into the Action Deck. This card is now considered an Action card.

Each time you reveal it during the Result step of an action you are involved in, you can discard it to get 1 additional success or banish it to succeed automatically.”

Things might have been clearer written this way.

Bruno


From this thread:
https://the7thcontinent.seriouspoulp.com/en/forum/topic/4484/card-180-a0599/page/3/300526/#300526
Posted
The discord link got changed again, I updated it with the new one.
Posted
Don't remember the page but I'm pretty sure the rules for combining items have a section on what happens when an individual item is removed from a stack.

Anyway it works exactly as you describe. Whatever's on top of the stack is the new top card, the die stays on top of the stack at the same durability.
Posted
I do not actually object to the idea of clarifying the wording of 180. Somebody has questions about it every couple weeks, so, it could obviously benefit from clarification. On some level I agree about the rules, too -- I'd probably have made them more technical and formal about stuff like this, if it had been my job -- but that does not mean they're broken or incomplete.

180 works fine under the rules as written, it is neither ambiguous nor complicated, and the fact that it doesn't work under this more technical, more formal set of rules that you've made up based on -- essentially -- nothing from the rulebook is a problem with your understanding, not a problem with 180 or the 7C rules. If "cards override the rules" is too informal to include in your understanding, you have to figure out a version of it that you can work with. You can't just ignore it because the implications are too complicated and then say every card that used that rule needs errata because you think "cards override the rules" actually just can't be a rule.

It really sounds like you aren't even reading anybody else's posts. You keep saying nobody's explaining their logic. We have, in detail, for pages and pages. You say nobody's provided specific rules citations. I have provided many, and the most important citation, that cards override the rules, has been provided probably a dozen times by many people. That is how this works, and why it works the way it does. That rules citation is correct. Whether or not it is satisfying to you, it is the right answer.

The only person in this thread spouting baseless opinions without any rules citations is you.
Posted
That would have worked better, yes.
Posted
That is my interpretation as well, as interesting as it is to digress into the other one.
Posted
abredon wrote:

Since you have not even tried to do so, it seems you have no logical ground to stand upon, and are merely trolling.


If anybody in this thread is trolling it's you, dude.

The correct interpretation of the rulebook is what you are calling "Restrictive". This is quite clear.

"When this gets revealed during the Result step of an action" is an exception to the restrictive timing rules.

You believe that that this is an impossible contradiction, because the restrictive timing (from the rulebook) takes priority over the exception (on the card) and thus the exception isn't read or processed, and does not work.

The rulebook makes it extremely clear that text on cards takes priority over rules from the rulebook. The exception works fine.

A couple pages back, you decided that very important rule was too big and abstract to fit into this rules framework you've made up, and you've just been ignoring it ever since.

Given that you've decided to pretend 7C's most important rule doesn't exist, it's not surprising you're confused -- but after a month of people patiently trying to explain these basic concepts to you, all you can do is repeat your misunderstandings, longer and angrier. We are not making progress here. Perhaps The 7th Continent is simply beyond your comprehension.
Posted - Edited
jhaelen wrote:
[To the contrary, it absolutely must state a restriction, otherwise the text will definitely always apply. It would be clear if it stated "When this card is drawn from the adventure deck..."


This is incorrect under the rules.

The rulebook quite clearly states that you resolve the text of cards when you draw them from the adventure deck. It doesn't need a timing to apply then, because the rules say it applies. The rules do not say to resolve text of cards when you draw them from the action deck -- it is quite clear, on page 12, that the normal thing to do with those cards is just to count their stars. Normally, no text on the cards you draw applies during this phase, and if you play that it does, it causes some other weirdness, like being able to discard Forewarned is Forearmed for an extra star immediately after it is drawn for another :icon_succes: on the check you drew it.

The few abilities that do trigger during that phase, including the Flying Roots card and the second (but not the first) ability of 180, trigger because they specifically say they do.

I would support errataing this card as you describe, because every couple weeks some poor kid posts about how confusing 180 is, but it is wrong to be resolving the text on cards when you draw them from the action deck.

jhaelen wrote:
So, you are 'pretty sure'. Pretty sure isn't good enough, imho. Because I'm pretty sure that you're wrong and my interpretation is fully supported by the game rules.
I also disagree that it is gamebreaking. Is it a good effect? Very much so. But game-breaking it's not. There's plenty of ways that can cause it to be discarded. You might just as well argue that hunting is game-breaking because it allows you to shuffle cards back into the action deck.


"Pretty sure" is the extent of my authority. I didn't design 7C, I don't and cannot know for sure what they were thinking. I can't make official rulings. But I've played hundreds of hours, I know the rules well, including recently studying them in detail specifically to look for evidence for another discussion of this question. Within those limits, there is not a doubt in my mind. I do not believe this card is ambiguous. I am as certain as I can be without an official ruling that it works as I describe. I doubt that's "good enough" either, but it would blow my mind if Bruno showed up and said I'm wrong about this.

Gamebreaking is relative, and certainly on it's own shouldn't be taken to mean it couldn't work that way. Loads of gamebreaking stuff absolutely does work under the rules, like Dark Side combo. I merely mean that, faced with a choice between two interpretations for what a minor magic item is supposed to do, one of which provides a small but solid bonus, the other of which completely outclasses every other source of healing in the game, including major relics, and renders the core hunting system almost obsolete, I think the first one is more likely the one they intended. That's all.

I'm definitely not trying to tell anybody how to play their game. You can do whatever makes sense to you, or whatever makes the game more fun to you, or just whatever you want. 7C's great about that, it's almost always fine to just play it your way. But I'm confident in my interpretation of the rules.
Posted
It's supposed to count as a Repentance card when you count them.

There's not, like, a different way to get it where it does say to flip it before banishing it. I'm pretty sure they just forgot to say to flip it.
Posted - Edited
I doubt it -- if that was planned it would have been announced alongside Classic, when they said that they were reprinting Icy Maze and Forgotten Sanctuary (but not Swamp of Madness or any other expansions.)

Please do send a pic of that cage/the salamander, I'm curious now.
Posted - Edited
The goat was a kickstarter-exclusive stretch goal, you can see (some) of those on the first kickstarter page, which is where I'm getting this info.

There's a curse in WGUMCD that involves sacrificing the goat as the very first step. It is possible WGUMCD also introduced a second way to get a goat banner, but I don't know about it if so. If not, without a goat banner anywhere in the game, there's no way to start this curse.


I found a salamander one time, but it might not have been that one. I think I, like, hatched mine from a fossil? Do you remember where you find that cage?