Forums/ The 7th Continent/ Card effect13 posts
Posted - Edited
For the first time ever, i feel that 7C has maliciously lied to me, kicked me in the testicles, and laughed at me.

Full details are in this BGG thread:

https://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/1841684/

And i'll summarize here:

card A0857 (#360), otherwise known as the
Mysterious Seed
, tells the user to
plant the seed someplace "truly arid and deserted" which has a symbol matching the one on card 360
.

Card #
281
is a 100% perfect, unambiguous match for those instructions, so i
planted the seed there
, but that results (after "waiting" via saving and loading the game) in a card which tells me that i
planted the seed in the wrong place, and then places a horrible monster which blocks off my access to that section of the map
.

Two users on BGG suggest that there is another location (near where i started my session this evening) which is also a match, but it cannot possibly be a better match for
"arid and deserted" than a necropolis in the desert
. Grrrrrr!!!
Posted
Maybe
the necropolis makes it less deserted than desired - the outcome seems to prove this
.
Posted - Edited
Unisus wrote:
Maybe
the necropolis makes it less deserted than desired - the outcome seems to prove this
.


Ignoring the
"desert"/"deserted"
pun
(DESERTed)
altogether (though it's yet another reason which this location is a better possible match for the given hint text than any other place can possibly be), the dictionary definition of
"deserted"
is
"(of a place) empty of people"
, which is a classic hallmark of a
necropolis
.

If the result of the card makes it
less deserted
, the player should not get kicked in the balls for not knowing that in advance - the hint is followed based on what the player knows in advance, and the given hint is a 100% perfect, unambiguous match (and the pun seems to be there to make it a 150% match).

If this were a case where a player needs to expend only 5 or 10 minutes of effort before getting kicked in the balls, i wouldn't be all that upset about it, but it's a case of the hint text telling the player unambiguously where to go and what to do, and then, after the player spends 2 hours getting there and doing it, the game kicks the player in the balls and laughs at him. That's downright evil, and not in a "ha, ha, we got you!" kind of way. It undermines the player's trust in all future hints provided by the game. Every single hint, from this point on, will be viewed as unreliable.
Posted
"The killer wears a mustache".

"Wait Jean-Luc gots a mustache, he IS the killer ! Burn him !!!"

......

It's not because there is a match (as perfect as it seems to be) that this is the only/good/better solution...
Objectif toutes :flag_curse_sm: par tous les explorateurs
DV CC
ME: 4/10 CD:4/10 LG : 7/10 SI : 4/10 TS : 4/10 OG : 2/10 AR : 0/10 PN : 0/10 PV : 0/10 VT : 0/10
Posted
Kornetmuse wrote:
It's not because there is a match (as perfect as it seems to be) that this is the only/good/better solution...


The solution revealed on BGG by other players is in no way a better match for the given flavor/hint text.

The given text is not merely a "good" match, it's a perfect, 100% unambiguous match. That's what pisses me off about this.
Posted
One of the places has
a necropolis (with dead people inside)
and is a cross-junction between several path.
The other place is
a dead end with no building
. Just some seagulls.
Knowing that, the seconde place match better.

You should be amused by this subtle trap. I was (because I also make the mistake) ! :-)
:resource_fire: Firebird :resource_fire: (Phoenixeux sur TT)
[DV :icon_curse::icon_curse::icon_succes:] [OG :icon_curse::icon_curse::icon_curse:*:icon_succes:] [LG :icon_succes:] [CD+SI :icon_curse::icon_curse:] [SI :icon_curse:] [CD :icon_curse::icon_success-left: :icon_success-right:**] [SI+TS en cours]
*[Histoire-T7C :icon_succes_7:] **[Pénitence :icon_curse:+Funéraille:icon_success-left:]
Posted
Firebird wrote:
One of the places has
a necropolis (with dead people inside)
and is a cross-junction between several path.
The other place is
a dead end with no building
. Just some seagulls.
Knowing that, the seconde place match better.


i disagree. First, the dictionary definition of
"deserted"
counts only people, and
corpses
are not "people". Secondly, if there are seagulls then that location cannot be
arid
(because seagulls live only near large bodies of water), and the hint specifically says
someplace "arid"
.

Firebird wrote:
You should be amused by this subtle trap. I was (because I also make the mistake) ! :-)


i spent two full hours working towards that specific spot only to use that item, and when i got there it told me that the hint was, in effect, lying to me. i am not the slighted bit amused.
Posted
Your review is writed. Some players gave you a different point of view. Some others maybe thinks the same as you. And future potential pledgers will be able to read you.

I'm just sad about your big frustration. :unsure:
I hope that you won't find/live a similar situation later in the game (if you continue to play).
:resource_fire: Firebird :resource_fire: (Phoenixeux sur TT)
[DV :icon_curse::icon_curse::icon_succes:] [OG :icon_curse::icon_curse::icon_curse:*:icon_succes:] [LG :icon_succes:] [CD+SI :icon_curse::icon_curse:] [SI :icon_curse:] [CD :icon_curse::icon_success-left: :icon_success-right:**] [SI+TS en cours]
*[Histoire-T7C :icon_succes_7:] **[Pénitence :icon_curse:+Funéraille:icon_success-left:]
Posted
i consider the current hint text on this seed to be a bug. Seagulls do not live in
arid
places, but a
desert
is an
arid
place.
Posted
jeez.. I guess you should sew them for trapping you...

I think this is a "language issue". I mean in french the trap is perfect, they don't mention "arid" because deserted and desert are the same word in french. So the trap is harder to set in english i guess.

But I'm sure you can get over it ;-).

Nonetheless, things are not always the way they seems, and a higher perspective is sometimes needed. You get trapped and so what ? Maybe next time you'll not act with so much haste.

And maybe it is the exact spot they wanted you to plant it.

let say a bottle of poison has "drink me" on it. If you drink it and believe everything that is wrote....

Now you've learned and you won't do it again.
Objectif toutes :flag_curse_sm: par tous les explorateurs
DV CC
ME: 4/10 CD:4/10 LG : 7/10 SI : 4/10 TS : 4/10 OG : 2/10 AR : 0/10 PN : 0/10 PV : 0/10 VT : 0/10
Posted - Edited
Kornetmuse wrote:
I think this is a "language issue". I mean in french the trap is perfect, they don't mention "arid" because deserted and desert are the same word in french. So the trap is harder to set in english i guess.


So, yes, the hint text is downright wrong in English.
Seagulls don't live in arid places.
This is a bug. If indeed the place with seagulls is the "correct"/intended place for the seed then the seed's English hint text is a downright lie.

Kornetmuse wrote:
Now you've learned and you won't do it again.


The lesson this teaches the player is that time-intensive side quests lead only to doom and destruction, making them completely unattractive.
Posted
Ok sir. You've dug a pretty good grave for yourself. Are you willing to accept a logical argument for why you are wrong and the game did not lie to you?

the card where you incorrectly planted the seed is 281. The correct card is 365.


The reasons you've given are assumptions, formed by you, from knowledge outside the game.
"necropolis are deserted.
And seagulls don't live in arid places" .
luckily, there's a clue you've missed that clears everything up and makes the correct choice quite apparent.

If you look at the back of both cards
281 says: "The wind whistles into a pit that was dug in the middle of a rocky plain." whereas card 365 says: "You have reached the end of this arid desert, formed by a promontory rising up about sixty yards above the ocean".


I think it's pretty clear which choice is correct. Happy exploring!
Posted
Sorry to sgbeal but I don't see the validity of this as a "bug" at all. I don't know if you will read the responses here, but maybe someone else will be confused by your reasoning, so I post my thoughts.

So, yes, the hint text is downright wrong in English.
Seagulls don't live in arid places.
This is a bug. If indeed the place with
seagulls
is the "correct"/intended place for the seed then the seed's English hint text is a downright lie.


I think it rather seems that you are the one "downright wrong" and that it is a "downright lie" that seagulls don't live in arid places.

Sandy beaches and neighboring dunes are commonly considered arid. If you need something to convince you of this I think you could try just googling "arid beaches", "arid coastal cliffs" or even "arid environment seabirds". I have many times visited arid places with an abundance of seabirds.

Secondly, if more is needed, "deserted" has a marked nuance of "a place where people [or other phenomena] have been before but has now left" rather than "a place where there are no people". To desert is to leave something, to be deserted is to have been left by something. Of course a short dictionary description does not tell you the full meaning of the world but just a short description of one or a few of the most commonly used meanings. You could have different opinions about this, but for me I would consider a ruin a much better match for a deserted place than a necropolis.

So I find the texts match up fine with the mechanisms and there really is nothing wrong here, sorry that you didn't enjoy getting confused but that is one of the appeals of this kind of game to me, sometimes the game outwits you (and sometimes it seems you even outwit yourself!).

I think a bit more politeness or research could be proper before venting such anger and frustration here, but to each his own of course. Have a good game! :)
Forums/ The 7th Continent/ Card effect13 posts