Forums/ The 7th Continent/ Errors on the game14 messages
Posté - Edité
There is an easily exploitable combination when using Lovecraft to spend 0 energy doing a small loop of checks to earn infinite experience and purchase every advanced skill.

If you have the special discard pile standee and select the "bunch of nonsense"
side. Anytime you have "Dark Whispers" in your hand you can pray at any of the graveyards that reveal a 091 card.

Dark Whispers gives you the success necessary to succeed the 091 check with no energy. Whichever 091 card you reveal makes you reveal a 666 card.

If you reveal the "you have apparently disturbed a tormented spirit" use the discard pile power to "discard a card with the keyword specter that they have just revealed, without applying any related effects. In that case, they must immediately take a 666 card."

If you reveal either of the other 666 cards, either it is harmless or Dark Whispers let's you succeed the check with no energy.

You may then resolve the 091 card. One of them doesn't do much, but the other 091 card let's you take any card from the discard pile or deck with the will or aggressiveness keyword and add it to your hand.

If you select Lovecraft's "Wild Imagination" you may then fail its check, using - 1 from Dark Whispers, to gain an experience OR succeed,
using Dark Whispers to spend no energy, to purchase advanced skills.

Because you have spent no energy to complete these steps, and because if there are no cards you are prompted to grab, you return all cards from the discard pile, you can repeat them indefinitely. Fail Wild Imagination to gain infinite experience then succeed Wild Imagination to purchase every advanced skill in the game.

All it takes is the patience to do these steps or the intelligence to realize the end result and jump to it.
Posté
I moved your topic into the Bug section to be sure the author check your idea.
:resource_fire: Firebird :resource_fire: (Phoenixeux sur TT)
[DV :icon_curse::icon_curse::icon_succes:] [OG :icon_curse::icon_curse::icon_curse:*:icon_succes:] [LG :icon_succes:] [CD+SI :icon_curse::icon_curse:] [SI :icon_curse:] [CD :icon_curse::icon_success-left: :icon_success-right:**] [SI+TS en cours]
*[Histoire-T7C :icon_succes_7:] **[Pénitence :icon_curse:+Funéraille:icon_success-left:]
Posté
Well done. I suspected that
"bunch of nonsense"
could be exploited, but not to this extent. Congrats! :)

The only possible stop point would happen when:
you draw "bad 666" as the last 666 card, apply "bunch of nonsense" to discard it, return the past, and then draw "bad 666" again. That's bound to happen a few times if you're going to do the whole jig some 100 times. (how many exp are the advanced skills worth in total?)
Posté
Accatitippi a écrit :
Well done. I suspected that
"bunch of nonsense"
could be exploited, but not to this extent. Congrats! :)

The only possible stop point would happen when:
you draw "bad 666" as the last 666 card, apply "bunch of nonsense" to discard it, return the past, and then draw "bad 666" again. That's bound to happen a few times if you're going to do the whole jig some 100 times. (how many exp are the advanced skills worth in total?)


Not if you
"save" and "reload" after getting the positive ghost effect, thereby ensuring you never draw two bad 666 cards in a row.


Of course, the
promo BGG card with 666
might either make this exploit easier or stop it completely... hmm...
Posté
Good point, but that would involve multiple tactical saving/loading, which is already a grey zone rules-wise. Still, it keeps it technically possible.

On the French side a number of fixes have been suggested, the most simple of which would be to
remove the keyword on Wild Imagination
.

https://the7thcontinent.seriouspoulp.com/fr/forum/topic/671/possible-xp-infinie-avec-lovecraft/page/1/270582/#270582
Posté
jpolitis a écrit :
There is an easily exploitable combination when using Lovecraft to spend 0 energy doing a small loop of checks to earn infinite experience and purchase every advanced skill.

If you have the special discard pile standee and select the "bunch of nonsense"
side. Anytime you have "Dark Whispers" in your hand you can pray at any of the graveyards that reveal a 091 card.

Dark Whispers gives you the success necessary to succeed the 091 check with no energy. Whichever 091 card you reveal makes you reveal a 666 card.

If you reveal the "you have apparently disturbed a tormented spirit" use the discard pile power to "discard a card with the keyword specter that they have just revealed, without applying any related effects. In that case, they must immediately take a 666 card."

If you reveal either of the other 666 cards, either it is harmless or Dark Whispers let's you succeed the check with no energy.

You may then resolve the 091 card. One of them doesn't do much, but the other 091 card let's you take any card from the discard pile or deck with the will or aggressiveness keyword and add it to your hand.

If you select Lovecraft's "Wild Imagination" you may then fail its check, using - 1 from Dark Whispers, to gain an experience OR succeed,
using Dark Whispers to spend no energy, to purchase advanced skills.

Because you have spent no energy to complete these steps, and because if there are no cards you are prompted to grab, you return all cards from the discard pile, you can repeat them indefinitely. Fail Wild Imagination to gain infinite experience then succeed Wild Imagination to purchase every advanced skill in the game.

All it takes is the patience to do these steps or the intelligence to realize the end result and jump to it.


Hi,
I guess we'll have to replace a "will" keyword on card "Wild imagination"...
Posté - Edité
BrunoS a écrit :
I guess we'll have to replace a "will" keyword on card "Wild imagination"...


Since the discard holder is optional (the setup rules say to use it "if you have it"), might it not make sense to simply deprecate the use of its effects, rather than modifying cards (reducing the number of Will cards we have to use with keyword-specific effects)?

FWIW, i don't use the discard holder's effects because Praying has punished me far too often and never rewarded me, so i see no benefit in its use other than for an exploit like the one described in this thread.
Posté
FYI this can happen with the experience card "Knowledge is Power" too. So it's probably better to change something else besides Wild Imagination

https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1844863/spoiler-infinite-experience
Posté
How does it look - is there a fix in the works for this??
Posté
I reminded BrunoS that there are similar (less important) cases which must also be taken into consideration. The keyword change may not be optimum and Serious Poulp is thinking about the best solution.
Work in progress. ;-)
:resource_fire: Firebird :resource_fire: (Phoenixeux sur TT)
[DV :icon_curse::icon_curse::icon_succes:] [OG :icon_curse::icon_curse::icon_curse:*:icon_succes:] [LG :icon_succes:] [CD+SI :icon_curse::icon_curse:] [SI :icon_curse:] [CD :icon_curse::icon_success-left: :icon_success-right:**] [SI+TS en cours]
*[Histoire-T7C :icon_succes_7:] **[Pénitence :icon_curse:+Funéraille:icon_success-left:]
Posté
Dumon a écrit :
How does it look - is there a fix in the works for this??


My fix is to just not exploit this situation.
Posté
Good hint.
I have not played the game, yet, so I was not sure if this is a situation that could naturally occur (like an infinite loop). I never read read the spoilers, so that I can fully enjoy the gameplay, but I also implement any fix and errata immediately, in order to guarantee that no snags will appear. Now, that obviously does not prevent us from stumbling upon something that has not been discovered, yet, but it helps prevent problems that have.
:)

So this is something that CAN be exploited. Good to know. Until an official fix is mentioned, I will see to it that it is not, when we finally get to play the game...
:)
Posté
There is another exploit to get all cards from the Discard back into the Action Deck with the use of card 608 (D1183) and the Gourmet card from Ferdinand. You basically fail at doing the action (-1 card, +1 star as a group), get rid of the Paranoid cards by moving towards some fire, and do it again.
This is pointless I'd never use this exploit, but it was fun to find out ^^
Posté
pikiou a écrit :
There is another exploit to get all cards from the Discard back into the Action Deck with the use of card 608 (D1183) and the Gourmet card from Ferdinand. You basically fail at doing the action (-1 card, +1 star as a group), get rid of the Paranoid cards by moving towards some fire, and do it again.
This is pointless I'd never use this exploit, but it was fun to find out ^^


Ah, that is a strong combo indeed!

It seems that there are quite some rule problems emanating from situations where you want to fail at an action and make arrangements to do this.

I am not sure if I would interpret the rules to allow this mechanism though, is lowering the card cost below zero really possible?
If more than one player is involved in the action, they may decide to lower the cost of the action by any number (-X cards to draw) and, on the other hand, increase the difficulty of the action by the same amount (+X required successes).
- Rulebook page 11

When a cost of "-1" can't even be paid, can it even be called to "lower"? I think this could open up to a lot of rules troubles. Maybe rules could be made clear(er) on this.

If the mechanism is allowed to be used to lower below zero, then I guess the D1183 card could be changed to "fix" it.
Forums/ The 7th Continent/ Errors on the game14 messages