Forums/ The 7th Continent/ Card effect6 posts
Posted - Edited
This is a re-formulation of a post over on BGG, re-posted here with the hope that we'll get an official answer for this...

Bird Call Advanced Skill (A0138) has a :action_condition: hunting icon which says:

:icon_succes_7: and/or you may use cards that have the following icon (brown Music).


This card's effect is applied during Step 3 (Result) of Action Resolution, whereas Items are "used" in Step 1. That timing implies that Bird Call's effect does not
reduce the durability of cards with the Music modifier which Bird Call "hijacks"
. However, Bird Call's use of the phrase
"may use cards"
is the same as the word
"use"
in Step 1's rules ("Lower the durability of each item you use by 1"), which implies that
durability of items activated by Bird Call is reduced because they are "used"
.

What is the correct official interpretation:

1)
Durability of items triggered by Bird Call ARE NOT reduced.

2)
Durability of items triggered by Bird Call ARE reduced.


:-?

Edit: the question, upon closer examination, really boils down to:

At what step(s) of Action Resolution may an Action Modifier :action_condition: be applied if it is neither an Energy modifier :card_blue: nor a Success modifier :icon_succes: :icon_succes_7:?

An answer to that question would, i believe, resolve my uncertainty about this particular card. There appears to be no explicit rules which allow for any type of Action Modifier which is not either an Energy modifier or a Success modifier.
Posted
I'm pretty sure that the answer is #2 : Durability is impacted.

You say :
This card's effect is applied during Step 3 (Result) of Action Resolution

This is not exactly the case : only the part ":icon_succes_7:" must be applied during Step 3.
As you can read in Step 2, effects are also applied in this step (-X:card_blue: for exemple).
And I think that you can find other types of effects that relate to other steps (although the rule is not explicit about this).
So, in my opinion, the effect "you may use cards that have the following icon (:action_condition::action_play_music:)" should be applied during Step 1, as a rule modifier allowing another icon than hunting, but without changing the rule on the cost of durability.
:resource_fire: Firebird :resource_fire: (Phoenixeux sur TT)
[DV :icon_curse::icon_curse::icon_succes:] [OG :icon_curse::icon_curse::icon_curse:*:icon_succes:] [LG :icon_succes:] [CD+SI :icon_curse::icon_curse:] [SI :icon_curse:] [CD :icon_curse::icon_success-left: :icon_success-right:**]
*[Histoire-T7C :icon_succes_7:] **[Pénitence :icon_curse:+Funéraille:icon_success-left:]
Posted
Firebird wrote:
You say :
This card's effect is applied during Step 3 (Result) of Action Resolution

This is not exactly the case : only the part ":icon_succes_7:" must be applied during Step 3.
As you can read in Step 2, effects are also applied in this step (-X:card_blue: for exemple).


Step 2 explicitly specifies only cost-modifying effects. Quoting page 11:

Each player involved in the action may apply the effects of one or more cards from their hand, of one or more Item cards from their inventory used during step 1 (Item), of one or more Permanent event cards attached to the Terrain card their figure is standing on, and/or of one or more Quest item cards, in order to decrease the number of cards to be drawn


(Emphasis added.)

Step 3 says:

Each player involved in the action may apply the effects of one or more cards from their hand, of one or more Item cards from their inventory used during step 1 (Item), of one or more Permanent event cards attached to the Terrain card their figure is standing on, and/or of one or more Quest item cards, in order to obtain additional successes


(Emphasis added.)

Bird Call ostensibly allows us to use the effects of other cards in the corresponding steps, depending on whether they're cost-reduction effects or Success-generating effects. Its own other-card-modifying effect, however, is not really covered by any of the action resolution timing rules, which leaves me even less certain of its interpretation than i was initially.

Firebird wrote:
And I think that you can find other types of effects that relate to other steps (although the rule is not explicit about this).
So, in my opinion, the effect "you may use cards that have the following icon (:action_condition::action_play_music:)" should be applied during Step 1, as a rule modifier allowing another icon than hunting, but without changing the rule on the cost of durability.


i can't say for sure :/. The timing of when exactly we activate the card-modifying effect of Bird Call is effectively undefined. i'm ashamed that that disturbs me as much as it does, but that's just how i'm built.
Posted
I flag this topic for the authors. ;-)
:resource_fire: Firebird :resource_fire: (Phoenixeux sur TT)
[DV :icon_curse::icon_curse::icon_succes:] [OG :icon_curse::icon_curse::icon_curse:*:icon_succes:] [LG :icon_succes:] [CD+SI :icon_curse::icon_curse:] [SI :icon_curse:] [CD :icon_curse::icon_success-left: :icon_success-right:**]
*[Histoire-T7C :icon_succes_7:] **[Pénitence :icon_curse:+Funéraille:icon_success-left:]
Posted
sgbeal wrote:
Edit: the question, upon closer examination, really boils down to:

At what step(s) of Action Resolution may an Action Modifier :action_condition: be applied if it is neither an Energy modifier :card_blue: nor a Success modifier :icon_succes: :icon_succes_7:?


Hi,
Obviously :card_blue: effects are applied during the Cost step and :icon_succes: effects are applied during the Resul step of the action. Other effects such as the one from Bird call are applied during the relevant step. In the case of Bird call it would be during Step 1 since it's where you choose which items you'll use during the action. The durability of "hunting" items would therefore be decreased by one as well.
Hope that helps
Bruno
Posted
BrunoS wrote:
Hope that helps


That resolves it, thank you :).
Forums/ The 7th Continent/ Card effect6 posts