Forums/ The 7th Continent/ Rules and Operating Points8 posts
Posted
Right now the rules don't state when card text is active.

There are a number of possible cases:
1 - when a card is revealed for any reason.
Problems with Forewarned is Forearmed, Valiant Hearts Shall Not Fail (allowing you to discard them for extra stars when they are drawn in the results step after counting their inherent stars)
Problem with Card 180 - shuffles into deck before giving star


2 - when a card is in any play area, not when merely revealed.
(with play area defined as hand, inventory, map, and satchel)
Problems with Flying Roots (failure to activate even though the card is supposed to)
Problem with Card 180 - failure to activate


3 - Never unless it specifically listed (e.g. by 'effect area' in card diagrams in rules).
Problems with Character skills (not in effect area), some 050 cards, Flying Roots - failure to activate.

4 - when card is in any play area or specifically mentions 'when revealed'
(with play area defined as hand, inventory, map, and satchel)
Problem with Card 180 - shuffles into deck before giving star


5 - when card is revealed unless the rulebook specifically excludes it.
The rulebook does not specifically exclude anything, so this has the same problem as 1

6 - when card is revealed unless the rulebook implies not.
This is very problematical, how can you reliably determine implication.

I think the answer should be 4 (when in a play area or the card states 'when revealed'), as that seems to cause the fewest problems.
Card
180
is the only card with problems in this case but that card has problems in all cases.
Posted - Edited
The rules state pretty clearly when you can use cards , starting on page 11 of the rule book for action resolution , only the left side of the card is used when you draw cards for a result , you can use cards from your hand , inventory or journal during the cost step and/or the results step . card text is only active when it is in your hand/inventory or journal.
Posted
MetalGod wrote:
The rules state pretty clearly when you can use cards , starting on page 11 of the rule book for action resolution , only the left side of the card is used when you draw cards for a result , you can use cards from your hand , inventory or journal during the cost step and/or the results step . card text is only active when it is in your hand/inventory or journal.

Where does the word "only" appear in the results step except in stating that the stars and 7 icons in the left strip are only taken into account in the result step?
The rules do not state that the rest of the card is not processed, just that that strip is not processed anywhere else.

If card text is only processed when in hand/inventory or journal, the Flying Roots cards don't work.

Again, the rules never provide that card text outside of an action is ever processed.
It is obvious that it needs to be processed only in some cases and not others.
Non-complete breakdown:
Needs to be processed or the game breaks:
1. Character skills text needs to be processed
2. Journal cards often have text that is processed
3. Text on some specific cards that do something when revealed in the results step of an action

Shouldn't be processed:
4. Text on some cards during the results step of an action.
5. Text on cards not currently in play.

Since there is no rule delineating the difference between 3 and 4 above, there is no way to tell what cards fall into 3 and what cards fall into 4
card 180 appears to be designed to fall into both, but the text on the card seems to indicate it falls into 4 entirely. It just doesn't work that way
.
Posted - Edited
No, no, no... when you reveal action cards as part of the result step of an action, you only consider the left column, where the stars / sevens are. The main portion of the action card can only be used when they are in your hand, be it an ongoing effect, an effect you activate by discarding the card or an action you may take (for, say, crafting an item).

The rules clearly say (result step) you can only use cards from your hand, items from your inventory (if activated in items step), quest items or effects from terrain card or permanent events linked to your terrain card. The text on action cards you just drew from the deck cannot be used, because they are not in your hand/inventory.

The only action cards you “activate” their text when revealed during the result step are the four cards from the Flying Roots add-on (those are not skill cards anyway and besides they specifically say what to do when you reveal them, while skill cards don’t say that)

Lastly, when you flip an exploration card, you immediately read what its text says and act accordingly.
Posted
Tootzo wrote:
No, no, no... when you reveal action cards as part of the result step of an action, you only consider the left column, where the stars / sevens are. The main portion of the action card can only be used when they are in your hand, be it an ongoing effect, an effect you activate by discarding the card or an action you may take (for, say, crafting an item).

The rules clearly say (result step) you can only use cards from your hand, items from your inventory (if activated in items step), quest items or effects from terrain card or permanent events linked to your terrain card. The text on action cards you just drew from the deck cannot be used, because they are not in your hand/inventory.

The only action cards you “activate” their text when revealed during the result step are the four cards from the Flying Roots add-on (those are not skill cards anyway and besides they specifically say what to do when you reveal them, while skill cards don’t say that)

Lastly, when you flip an exploration card, you immediately read what its text says and act accordingly.


Great if and only if that is specifically listed in the rules, but - guess what! It's not!

In fact if you read the rules, you realize that they don't actually list any time at which card text is active or not (except for the consequence area of an action, and the box area of a brown modifier)

This means one of the following:
1. no card text is active outside the action consequences and modifier boxes (no character skills, no Forewarned is Forearmed,flying roots,...) - many problems.
2. all card text is always active unless specifically excluded (you can discard Forewarned is Forearmed when you just drew if for an extra star, and a very few other issues). Problems with around 4-10 cards only.
3. The rules need an errata covering the special cases where card text should not be active.
Posted
It you just do what the cards say, which makes it obvious when they are to be used.
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Posted - Edited
JackSpirio wrote:
It you just do what the cards say, which makes it obvious when they are to be used.


There are cards that logic doesn't work with:
So you can discard "Forewarned is Forearmed" when it is drawn during the Result step of an action to get an extra star? It doesn't say "from hand" so you can discard it when it is drawn as a result card.

And the card that prompted me finding out how vague the rules are on this:
card 180
gets shuffled back into the deck and has no other effect?
Rather than the other 2 possibilities:
Adds a star and gets shuffled back into the deck.
Adds a star and does not get shuffled back into the deck.


There are cards in this game where your simplistic approach does not work, and when we go look for supporting actual rules or even designer's stated intention, we can find nothing to support any interpretation, and the vagueness causes me to
now question my former interpretation of every card.

With equal support from the rules, I could claim that you could:
Use a botany card even when the plant is not present (the qualifier text is not within the modifier box, so doesn't apply) - if you can only use card rules text when explicitly told to.
Discard a just-drawn Valiant Hearts card for 2 extra successes in the action it was drawn (the text says you may discard it for those successes) - if all card rules text is always applicable.

Since the rules say nothing about when card text is applicable, one of the above should be true, but there is no way to tell, and simple logic says neither should be true(forewarned/valiant hearts/roots/180), so we need a clarification on the edge cases.

Logic says the result card text should not be applied, but then flying roots have text that needs to be applied when drawn as results. Card
180
has text that doesn't make sense interpreted either way.

And most importantly, if someone questions why your interpretation is correct, where in the official rules/clarifications can you point?

Specific examples of actual rules/clarifications only, please. No hearsay
Posted
As stated above the rules tells you what cards you can use in that step, just drawn cards are not in that list.

You just repeat the same arguments again and again, that won’t give anyone new insight.
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Forums/ The 7th Continent/ Rules and Operating Points8 posts