Forums/ Website/ Bugs and misprint5 posts
Posted - Edited
Card #180

"Shuffle this card back into action deck"

Problem 1, "back into" makes it sounds like it's applied whenever it comes out of action deck.

Problem 2, lack of timing. (not sure when to apply the first sentence)

From experience, when you're low on action-deck cards (life force), the current translation of "back into action deck" makes it game breaking because it will always stay in action deck if you only draw 1 card to move around and never use it as a success.

Suggest that it's corrected into something like the following... (since this is a special card)
- When you reveal from adventure deck , shuffle it into action deck.
- When you reveal from action deck, use it as a star then add to action-discard pile (not the past); or use it as a success then banish it.
Posted - Edited
I agree this card is worded in a confusing way, but I don't think it actually needs errata, strictly speaking.

You apply the first sentence when you first read the card. It's like any other rules text on the numbered side of a green card -- you do it as soon as you take the card. This doesn't need to specify a timing to work, because it uses the default timing. I agree it might be clearer if it did specify a timing, but it doesn't actually need one.

"back into the Action Deck" is a confusing choice of words, because it sort of implies that the card was coming from the Action Deck at the time this ability applies, but I don't think that's nearly enough to specify a timing. If I were to change the wording of this card, the most important change would be to remove "back" from this sentence.

"When this gets revealed..." is a separate ability that specifies its timing. If you were meant to shuffle the 180 card back into the action deck when it is revealed from the action deck, you would shuffle it back into the deck as part of this ability. But it is not -- in fact, it is very specifically split off into a separate ability.

So, I'm pretty sure you're playing it wrong, if you're shuffling it back into the action deck every time you reveal it. I'm pretty sure you only do the first ability when you take the card from the deck, just based on how the timings work -- to say nothing of the balance implications. Which, you're right, totally gamebreaking under that interpretation.
Posted
It seems to me that the answer given in this thread is correct, and that's how I've played it. But there's been a discussion on BGG about this card and I was just wondering if the designers have ever confirmed that the "Shuffle this card back into action deck" only applies on the first draw?
Posted
Well, the card isn't as ambiguous as it may seem at the first glance.

As Brisingre already mentioned, the effect of the card is dependant from the situation it shows up.

When drawing the card from the adventure deck, the text on the numbered side of the card takes effect in the whole.

As the card is no skill card, you never use it for a possible ability but only for its successes (stars and/or sevens) when revealed from the action deck.

The "When this gets revealed..." effect is actually not an effect you gain when revealing the card, but it's already gained the moment you shuffle it into the action deck and is only triggered by revealing it.
Posted - Edited
I agree 100% with Unisus on how the card works but I disagree on a small technical point as to why it works this way.

I don't think "when this gets revealed" is a permanent game-overlaying trigger that exists outside of the card like that. 7C doesn't really do those, any ability that exists for more than a split second is represented by a face-up card in the game somewhere.


It's simpler than that.

Card text ordinarily works when you take a card from the Adventure deck by number, but does not ordinarily work when you reveal a card from the action deck during an action. Because the first ability does not define its timing, it behaves in this "ordinary" way, and triggers only once, when you first take 180 by number.

Abilities that define their timing work when they say they work, even if the rules otherwise say they wouldn't. The rulebook boils this down to "text on cards takes priority over the rulebook" but one major practical implication of that is that the timing restrictions, the parts of a card that say when the rest of the card works, are always "live". Because the second ability defines its timing, you don't have to worry about what the rules have to say beyond that, really -- the rules for this ability are on the card, not in the rulebook.
Forums/ Website/ Bugs and misprint5 posts