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Maxed Items

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64x64
Posté
#1
If I have max items. I.e. each player has 2 items in a four player game.
Then we go hunting and end up drawing 5 meat cards.
Do we need to discard our currently held items in order to cook the food and eat it?

It seems to me that we would need to discard to free up a total of 3 dice. (2 lots of two can be stacked, and one left over) to 'build' the meat, before we can cook it.

This doesn't make sense if the fire token is on our current square, or if we eat it raw immediately.

Can someone confirm i understand the rules correctly. Because it seems a pain to have to destroy all your items while hunting.
64x64
Posté - Edité
#2
Thefieryphoenix a écrit :
If I have max items. I.e. each player has 2 items in a four player game.
Then we go hunting and end up drawing 5 meat cards.
Do we need to discard our currently held items in order to cook the food and eat it?


Here is how I see the thing:

  1. Rulebook says, page 20:
    When an Item card is found or crafted, the player may combine it with an existing item in their inventory in order to form one single item, without exceeding the allowed “stacking” limit, which depends on player count (as shown on the “Satchel & Journal” card).


  2. You canot do any action (like eating) when another action is still in progress (hunting)
    Page 10 from Rulebook:


  3. The action ends after the "7. Hand size limit", which is after the "6. Consequence":



So, as a consequence,
  • if your inventory is fully stacked, you have to dicard the food. Which is indeed a bummer...
  • If not, you can stack food under your existing item (even if you have no related keyword but without increasing the dice value ... which is also a bummer...)
Kamille
64x64
Posté
#3
Interestingly, your comment highlighted a rule it seems i misunderstood, though not relevant entirely to the question.

I thought you could only combine cards with the same keyword, and can increase durability. A re-read of the rules I now understand the misunderstanding.


Anyway, from the hunt card, the consequence is draw 5 'meat' cards.

You draw the 5 cards. As they are an item card, we refer to the rules on page 15.

They must add it to their inventory, give to another player involved, or discard it.

However, page 20 discusses relinquishing an item, which can occur at any time. Which means you can discard one of the items in your inventory, then create the meat you just picked up.

This is how I feel the rules read.

In terms of spirit of the game, my opinion is you should be able to eat the meat for free if you do so immediately. For example, in real life you have a carcass in front of you. You can put your item on the ground, eat, and pick up your items again.

Thoughts?
64x64
Posté
#4
From the RP point of vue, I agree with you.

But I really guess that from the Rules point of vue, you can't do that unless you discard as many card from your inventory you need.
Just remember you can't simply dicard one item of a stack (unless it's the consequence of it). You need to discard the entire stack :

Kamille
64x64
Posté
#5
I agree with the Kamille's explanation (and your roleplay point of view).

I think Serious Poulp wants the player to make a choice between moving with a full inventory or being less equiped but more flexible.
In your case, hunting was maybe not the better thing to do. You were enought prepared to try some difficult action, before to eat and rest. (?)
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64x64
Posté
#6
What about having some sort of camp/rest/guard action that can be taken anytime. (except of terrain with the red circle with a line through it symbol)

Any player may double their inventory space while stationed on a single terrain card.

This would allow them to hold food and eat it without moving, and without loosing their equipment if fully stacked. But if they want to move, they need to reduce their inventory down to the required value.

I feel this would be more realistic. But how much it affects the desired outcome of the game i dont know yet. Would need a lot more gameplay hours to say.
64x64
Posté
#7
I couldn't answer for sure here but I guess that doubling the inventory with this mechanic would look way too easy
Kamille
64x64
Posté
#8
The good point of board games is that you can do what you want with the set of material at your disposal ! :p

I attend to play with 3 other players, so 2 ideas in hand et 2 double objects seams really difficult to manage. We will see after a first playthrough, because most of the time you can predict when you are going to get food before doing an action, but if it is to painful I guess I will set a specific rules for food which allows me to eat directly a food I just get with a worse effect.

2 cards instead of 4 for a fish card for exemple.

Thematically, you eat in a hurry so it's not so good but you can still go with your tools.

I wonder what does the "poulps" think about it. Have you imagine this in a first time and rollback for balancing purpose ?
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ME: 4/10 CD:4/10 LG : 7/10 SI : 4/10 TS : 4/10 OG : 2/10 AR : 0/10 PN : 0/10 PV : 0/10 VT : 0/10
64x64
Posté
#9
Kamille a écrit :
[quote=Thefieryphoenix]

  1. The action ends after the "7. Hand size limit", which is after the "6. Consequence":



So, as a consequence,
  • if your inventory is fully stacked, you have to dicard the food. Which is indeed a bummer...
  • If not, you can stack food under your existing item (even if you have no related keyword but without increasing the dice value ... which is also a bummer...)


Couple of questions on this:

The action resolution section - part 7 (hand size limit) only talks about discarding skill or bonus cards, not item cards. Could it be argued that the hunting action is in fact completed, and you are left with an overflowing inventory that you must tend to before you move on (like eating before moving).

If you create a new stack with meat on top (or any single durability item like fire starters) and then use it, is the rest of the item stack discarded (since discarding the card is a part of the item effect as per the relinquishing rule)? If not, what is the durability for the remainder to be set to?
64x64
Posté
#10
Lyannah a écrit :
[quote=Kamille][quote=Thefieryphoenix]

The action resolution section - part 7 (hand size limit) only talks about discarding skill or bonus cards, not item cards. Could it be argued that the hunting action is in fact completed, and you are left with an overflowing inventory that you must tend to before you move on (like eating before moving).


No because this part is only for ideas. For objects, the limit must immediatly be applied. When you get a new object you can't have more objects than the limit. If not you would be able to combine an extra item, adjust the durability and then discard a card. That would be cheating :).

Lyannah a écrit :
[quote=Kamille][quote=Thefieryphoenix]
If you create a new stack with meat on top (or any single durability item like fire starters) and then use it, is the rest of the item stack discarded (since discarding the card is a part of the item effect as per the relinquishing rule)? If not, what is the durability for the remainder to be set to?


When a card effect says to discard this card, it is only this card which must be discarded. The dice (if there is durability remaining) go on to the next card if it was the top one.

Don't forget that the food card share the same keyword, so if you've got a stack of 3 meat, you can eat 3 times :).

Try not to combine food with the bolas for exemple :D stack food with an already existing item that doesn't share a keyword seems to be a total waste !
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ME: 4/10 CD:4/10 LG : 7/10 SI : 4/10 TS : 4/10 OG : 2/10 AR : 0/10 PN : 0/10 PV : 0/10 VT : 0/10
64x64
Posté
#11
The durability and discarding cards can lead to some interesting scenarios.

For example, woven basket with three food has a durability of 4. Discard the 3 food cards at certain situations (there are some situations which can discard food cards). You are then left with a woven basket with 4 durability. If you add another item that has uses, such as the panpipes (serenity?). You can then keep increasing the durability of the panpipes by hunting food and discarding them (from the specific action that says you can).

Just an odd situation that can occur.
64x64
Posté
#12
Thefieryphoenix a écrit :
The durability and discarding cards can lead to some interesting scenarios.

For example, woven basket with three food has a durability of 4. Discard the 3 food cards at certain situations (there are some situations which can discard food cards). You are then left with a woven basket with 4 durability. If you add another item that has uses, such as the panpipes (serenity?). You can then keep increasing the durability of the panpipes by hunting food and discarding them (from the specific action that says you can).

Just an odd situation that can occur.



Which specific action can make you discard food ? If you think about the one on the food card you've misunderstood the basics of objects.

Foods are objects like others. In order to use the ability to discard the food card you must use the object. So the object durability is decrease by one.

Don't forget that the durability of a stacked object is increased only if thes share the same keywork. I don't know about the keywords on the shoes and the food but are you sure they are the same ?
Objectif toutes :flag_curse_sm: par tous les explorateurs
DV CC
ME: 4/10 CD:4/10 LG : 7/10 SI : 4/10 TS : 4/10 OG : 2/10 AR : 0/10 PN : 0/10 PV : 0/10 VT : 0/10
64x64
Posté
#13
Thefieryphoenix a écrit :
The durability and discarding cards can lead to some interesting scenarios.

For example, woven basket with three food has a durability of 4. Discard the 3 food cards at certain situations (there are some situations which can discard food cards). You are then left with a woven basket with 4 durability. If you add another item that has uses, such as the panpipes (serenity?). You can then keep increasing the durability of the panpipes by hunting food and discarding them (from the specific action that says you can).

Just an odd situation that can occur.

You either aren't playing correctly or there's a mechanism I'm unaware of that lets you discard food without performing any action. If you had a woven basket and 3 food under it at 4 durability - and you perform one eat/drink action - you are left with a woven basket and 2 food, 3 durability. Eat the other 2 food and you are left with a woven basket with 1 durability.

If you use any part of an item stack, the stack's durability is reduced. Which is why putting food under items that don't share a keyword is bad (but sometimes a necessary evil).
64x64
Posté
#14
Well, let say you have a woven basket (top card) (serenity/stamina) and panpipes (music/serenity), down to 1 durability.

You then get 3 food (food/stamina), and the durability goes up to 4 with woven basket, panpipes, and 3 x food.

Then you
go to card 122 and pray,
drawing a 238 card.

While this card is shown, you can discard 1 card with the word food to do a 'offer' action. You then get 3 x 003 cards.

Because it is an action on an adjacent card, you can perform it repeatedly.


This then leaves you with woven basket and panpipes sitting at durability 4.

I dont know if this is intended but its how the rules read to play that situation.
64x64
Posté
#15
In that very pecular configuration i agree with you but the odds to be in that situation seems very low.

Besides, you discard a food card that you can't eat. Maybe the offering worth the loss but a 18 cards potential recovery seems to be a very high price to use a woven basket 3 more times :D
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DV CC
ME: 4/10 CD:4/10 LG : 7/10 SI : 4/10 TS : 4/10 OG : 2/10 AR : 0/10 PN : 0/10 PV : 0/10 VT : 0/10
64x64
Posté
#16
Situation can actually occur quite often as
every idol allows you to sacrifice a card with the word stamina or food. (counting 3 so far...but i suspect every idol is a variation of it)

And if you know when to build your items it easy to place the woven basket first. (this is most likely in single player mode)

And it not the woven basket that gets the uses.

Imagine a single player game. This is close to my current setup.

The setup is as follows.

Woven basket
Panpipes
wooden flute...(idk it name but there is a flute you can find with serenity tag)

Bird whistle....you can get from experience points



That four items, plus an extra 3 due to woven basket. You can keep generating durability indefinitely.

Is it worth it? For that setup it sure is.

And you can still add 2 more useful items into it and still keep regenerating durability, just a bit slower.
64x64
Posté - Edité
#17
I agree with that but I wonder how you're gonna regain stamina if you keep discarding food.

You'll manage to have an item with infinite durability during your game. But maybe you're game will not going too far :D

1 durability point against 6 cards recovery.



The offering has to be very good !! :D
Besides I won't be surprised ifsome offering end in a bad way !
Objectif toutes :flag_curse_sm: par tous les explorateurs
DV CC
ME: 4/10 CD:4/10 LG : 7/10 SI : 4/10 TS : 4/10 OG : 2/10 AR : 0/10 PN : 0/10 PV : 0/10 VT : 0/10
64x64
Posté
#18
I can't see the tradeoff for losing food to be worth it, especially since hunts get harder. It doesn't seem like you are doing anything wrong though, so if it's working for you keep it up!
64x64
Posté - Edité
#19
Sry, but the food thing is still unclear to me ...
What I understand: It could be added to an existing item stack or could be ket in hand for a next action, building a food stack.
If multiple players are involved, you can divide the food amongst the players which joined the hunt (or whatever). Then later you cannot give it to the player building a food stack.
Example: Say, I have one available skill slot (2 players), my hand is full and the other player's hand is also full.
In my action, hunting, I got 2 food.
I can now stack the food in my third skill slot, however:
Before I can start my next action (building a food stock item), I have to respect my hand limit.
2 food + 3 skill cards, so I have to discard 2 skills to keep the food.
Then I can do an action, to put one food as an item and a next action to add a food to the stack.
In case of 3 food, I can add a third food to the stack.
Say I have a basket, I could add a forth and 5th food to the stack, however I could never collect more than 3 food, since I only have room for 3 skill's in my hand.
Personal note:
I believe, one should allow a special action before step 7 to build food.
Somehow to build anything. Say I collected an item (s), I could build an item and add to the item, then when I move or search, fight I should reduce my hand (cary on) and items to the maximum.

PS Could I use the bone from the meat to build an item which needs a bone ?
64x64
Posté - Edité
#20
@ Iliamel :
You misunderstood some very important rules, so your reasoning doesn't make sense.

You should re-read the rulebook with these informations :
  • Hand and Inventory are 2 distinct parts of a player's gaming area.
  • Hand can only have :icon_hand_blue::icon_hand_green::icon_hand_orange: cards inside. And the limit is only for :icon_hand_blue: and :icon_hand_green:.
  • Inventory can only have :icon_d6: cards ==>
    • if a card has only the :icon_d6: symbol (like food), you must put it into your Inventory directly.
    • if a card has a :icon_d6: (right corner) and a :icon_hand_blue: skill symbol (left corner), you must put it into your Hand and make a craft action :action_craft: later to turn this Skill card into an Item card :icon_d6:.
  • In solo mode (for example), the Inventory limit is 4 combinated Items (with maximum 4 Items cards).
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Forums/ The 7th Continent/ Strategies & Tactics21 messages
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