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Items used that don't lower durability, in a Stack.

Forums/ The 7th Continent/ Rules and Operating Points27 messages
64x64
Posté
#1
If an item stack contains an item which if used doesn't lower the durability, can other effects in the stack essentially be used for free? The text on these items typically sates " Using this item doesn't lower the durability" . Since it doesn't say card but rather item Im thinking this applies to the stack of items, and other effects can be used that turn to resolve the taken action ... ? Without lowering the durability by 1 of that item stack.

I can not seem to find any official ruling on this. Any help greatly appreciated.
64x64
Posté
#2
To be clear take for example
An item stack consisting of "bow" and "fat grub" both can be used to modify a fishing action, if the fat grub is used to provide its 2 stars for success AND the effect of the bow is used to add a sat as well, the grub being used "does NOT lower durability of the item ...So does the bow effect essentially get a free use here. The fat grub ofc must then be discarded


Be nice to have a SP ruling on this, as it occurs quite frequently ....
64x64
Posté
#3
Do you have card references for the example, so I can check with my French set ?
64x64
Posté
#4
In the example I used it would be the " Bow" item card combined with card # 135.

Say you are doing a fishing action, both cards can support the action if in the same item stack, does the bow lose a durability, since card 135 prevents the loss.? There are many other examples, and as I've said, this seems to not have come up anywhere in the forums here or bgg.
64x64
Posté
#5
Sounds interesting. I don't have the game yet so I probably can not help to clear this up but I am excited for what the official ruleing on this case will be.
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64x64
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#6
Hello Spele - I see you comment frequently over on KS. You'll love the game, its very fun!
64x64
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#7
Hello Realarete! I just can't wait for march. But on the other hand it is not that long for a KS. I am truly excited to play this game. It seems so incredibly genious.
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64x64
Posté - Edité
#8
This question isn't solved on the french forum after 3 pages of comments. :-(

My point of view is :
Using a combinated item with a #135 card (for exemple) ,
  • Step 1 (rule page 11-12) : I move the die from the corner to the middle of the card, just to say I activate this whole Item; And I decrease the pip :icon_d6:-1.
  • Step 3 : I choose which cards (and which effects) in this Item I want to use :
    • If I use only the #135 card, its effect says the durability didn't have to decrease. So I increase the pip :icon_d6:+1.
    • In another case (more cards used OR no card used at all), I don't touch the die.

In solo mode, in fact, if I'm sure to use only the #135 card, I don't touch the die.
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64x64
Posté
#9
Thank you for input Firebird, I suppose this question is still unsolved? Given that it indeed says "item" and not card, Id be inclined to think other effects of the stack could be used? without a decrease of PIP, unless the game creator has specifically said otherwise. This would keep it in line with discarding a "card" for an item stack, since you target the single card, it dismantles, while the effect of no durability loss says "item" rather than "card" seems to suggest that the stack is involved, and NOT the single card...?

Thoughts?
64x64
Posté - Edité
#10
p20 a écrit :
When an Item card is found or crafted, the player may combine it with an existing item in their inventory in order to form one single item

p11 a écrit :
For each item used this way, the player will be able to apply at most once during the action some or all of the effects of one or more Item cards it consists of, provided a :action_condition: icon associated with the effect matches the :action_empty: current action.

A0411 a écrit :
Using this card doesn't lower the durability


The word CARD on the Unbreakable Item Card description is crucial.
As long as you use your Whole Item to perform the :action_empty: action specified on the UIC using only the benefit from your UIC, I would say that, indeed, you wouldn't have to lower the WI durability.
If, on the other hand, you use the benefit from both your UIC and the other cards being part(s) of the WI, you would have to reduce the durability of the WI.

Keeping in mind that, in any case the rulebook authorizes such contradictions :
p5 a écrit :
Important! Card text overrides this rulebook.


So in some specific cases, it is possible to use part of an item without reducing the whole item durability.

It's only logical, Captain.
64x64
Posté
#11
It's only logical, Captain.


I have to agree. This as a thorough and reasonable interpretation in my opinion.
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64x64
Posté - Edité
#12
More details to come : we are still debating on the French side.:-P

I am leaving for a long week-end but am confident that a solution will be found on monday.

I will give you a summary (or at least an update) then.;-)
64x64
Posté
#13
So whats the official word on this ? Are we supposed to just guess? Its been a week and no official ruling?
64x64
Posté
#14
Question's been sent to Bruno.
64x64
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#15
I guess Bruno and Ludo are having some busy times due to the KS and launching of the PM and upcoming production. Patience brings answers ;-)
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64x64
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#16
Nah - I came to these forums since BBG forums were not providing an answer. Starting to seem odd the game designers don’t take the time to answer rules questions ... with many people now enjoying the game this situation comes up a fair amount. Heavily debated it seems too....

So after a week and ZERO response seems a bit lazy to me.

Any other forum for ks games that I’ve posted the question at least gets addressed.... lol

Doesn’t seem to be asking a lot....
64x64
Posté
#17
realarete a écrit :
If an item stack contains an item which if used doesn't lower the durability, can other effects in the stack essentially be used for free? The text on these items typically sates " Using this item doesn't lower the durability" . Since it doesn't say card but rather item Im thinking this applies to the stack of items, and other effects can be used that turn to resolve the taken action ... ? Without lowering the durability by 1 of that item stack.

I can not seem to find any official ruling on this. Any help greatly appreciated.


Hello and sorry for the response time,

When an Item card – the “Sharp stone” for instance – states “Using this does not lower the durability of the item.”, then, as long as you use at least 1 effect of this card, you don’t have to lower the durability of the item it’s part of.

So, let’s say you fight with an Item “Club” combined with a “Sharp stone”, you reduce the durability of the Item if YOU DO NOT use your sharp stone, and you DO NOT reduce the durability of the item if you use at least 1 effect of your Sharp Stone (which is therefore discarded).
64x64
Posté
#18
Thx for clearing things up Bruno!
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64x64
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#19
Thank you Bruno! That helps a ton, nice to not have to guess as to how this mechanic played out.
64x64
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#20
Good to know. This makes the item cards like stone more useful, nice.
Forums/ The 7th Continent/ Rules and Operating Points27 messages
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