Forums/ The 7th Continent/ Rules and Operating Points12 messages
Posté
I’ve found a cave (#119) that has a torch icon. If I follow my inventory item for torch and add +9 to this numbox, it gives me #128. However this card has a thumbs up symbol only pointing to #94.

According to the rule book, I thought the thumbs up icon calls out all applicable cards - did I make a mistake and the torch doesn’t apply, or is this an errata?
Posté
The :thumb_up: contains the number of card that allowed you to take/compute this card's number - and that is exactly card #94, the terrain card with the torch :flag_blue_sm:. So it's all right.
Posté
Thanks for clarifying. So if it brings me to a temporary event but no further card indicator after this, would I need to complete the action again (and therefore draw another round of action card(s))? There are two of #128 and two of #119, so I do I need to keep completing actions to get to all cards?
Posté
Yes, you'll need to
take the action twice with the torch
to see all the #128 cards (
possible because those are both temporary events
)
As for the #119s - the green card is a permanent event - when in play you cannot repeat the action to see the
goldern #119
. I'm not going to say how to get to that one.
Posté - Edité
Note : The flag :flag_blue_sm: has a "magnifying glass" symbol, not a torch. (It seems to me)
So, yes you find this symbol on the torch card, but it maybe exists other items with the same symbol (and same value).
That's why the :card_pick_thumb: points over the terrain card and not the number of the item card.
:resource_fire: Firebird :resource_fire: (Phoenixeux sur TT)
[DV :icon_curse::icon_curse::icon_succes:] [OG :icon_curse::icon_curse::icon_curse:*:icon_succes:] [LG :icon_succes:] [CD+SI :icon_curse::icon_curse:] [SI :icon_curse:] [CD :icon_curse::icon_success-left: :icon_success-right:**] [SI+TS en cours]
*[Histoire-T7C :icon_succes_7:] **[Pénitence :icon_curse:+Funéraille:icon_success-left:]
Posté - Edité
Firebird, there's a discussion on BGG about whether or not a banner effect on an item card can be applied when none of the card's "item effects" match the action.

You didn't seem to address the fact that the "Go See" action on card 94 does not appear as an item effect on the torch item. Yet the roles for using items on p.21 clearly indicate that items can only be used either if they have a white action on them, or if one of the item effects on the item are associated with an action available elsewhere.

On p.14 under the banner rules, it says that you can apply banner effects when using an item, but as just determined, the rules for using an item do not allow for use when an associated action or item effect is not available. There isn't any language in the banner rules that overrides the "using an item" language.

Can you please read through this thread and let us know what the official response from SP is? Is this errata, or is there another item with the "magnifying glass" banner that has "go see" as an item effect that would make application of the rules consistent?

https://boardgamegeek.com/article/28903841#28903841
Posté - Edité
You're being pretty stubborn about this, huh?

The intent of the rules is clear, and you're going out of your way to interpret them incorrectly. I can't tell if you really have this much trouble wrapping your head around a simple concept, or if you just like arguing. Your comments here and on the BGG forums lend evidence to either scenario.

Accept the fact that either you don't get it or don't want to get it, and stop wasting everybody's time.
Posté
Nintendojunkie, please stop stalking me across websites.

Sincerely,
Schleima
Posté - Edité
Hey.
I just started playing and not run into such a problem. Just reading what are the rules problems I can run into and how to deal with it.
I don't want to waste anybodys time bud I get what Schleima is refering to and what his problem is.
On page 11 in Item step of an action resolving step we can read that You CAN use ONE or MORE item from your inventory by removing the pimp.
OK. So I WANT to use my torch. Lets read on.
"For each item used this way, the player will be able to apply – at most once during the action – some or all of the effects of one or more Item cards it consists of, provided a :action_condition: icon associated with the effect matches the :action_empty: current action."
OK. So I may use SOME or ALL effects. Which implies that I'm allowed to use NONE.
So I remove a pimp from my torch to use it and apply none of the effects because :action_condition: does not fit :action_empty: I'm taking.

Problem comes on page 21.
"A player may use an item (...) either to apply some or all of the the item’s effects when they are involved in an :action_empty: action to which the item’s effect :action_condition: applies, or to take an action featured by this item".
It's not clear to me if you are allowed to use an item if you are not able to match neither " apply some or all of the the item’s effects when they are involved in an :action_empty: action to which the item’s effect :action_condition: applies" nor "take an action" part.
Constructyion of this sentence is: EITHER first OR second. In case of this torch you are not able to use neither of these two. Mayby it should be stated in a different way to be more clear for everyone.

Anyway, I'm happy I bumped onto this thred, because I'm not sure if I'd play it correct without this discussion.

PS. Why to be so rude?
Posté
Schleima, I read the BBG topic and I'm pretty sure the SP's opinion is very close to the Clipper's one :
Oh, I agree 100% that the rules would be better off rewritten. The item rules are very inconsistent and they certainly come with an implication that your strict interpretation is correct.

However, I also think the rules also can support the clearly intended approach that we've been arguing for. There is ambiguity depending on how strictly you think the rules are being defined. In this case, I am willing to give them the benefit of the doubt and let this slide, as the strict interpretation is absurd and clearly should not be followed.

If your only argument is that the rules should be rewritten, then we are in agreement and can end the debate. I'm not sure I'm ready to accept an argument that the rules must be rewritten for us to be able to play it with the intended mechanic, though. There are so many other rules that would need the same level of care and that would ruin the wonder you experience by discovering the game as you play.

Some rulebooks, e.g., Magic:The Gathering, need to be very strict and not allow for you to stretch the wording to suit. Others require a little bit of looseness in the rules so that they can stretch to cater for unforeseen situations and that is where I feel the 7th Continent rulebook resides. All three things we have discussed that don't really match the written rules fit within this looseness if we allow for it.

For those not following, those three things would be:
1: Using an item for no effect other than the banner on one of its cards. (Torch)
2: Double pictographs on a numbox-banner. (Gears)
3: Bonus cards with banners. (Goat)


Creating an errata just for that is not a good idea : imagine all the players asking for a new rulebook just for one sentence... :dizzy:
The more important is that players understands the logic of the rule and, if needed, that they can find an anwser on this official website (or BGG of course). That's why I'm here !
:resource_fire: Firebird :resource_fire: (Phoenixeux sur TT)
[DV :icon_curse::icon_curse::icon_succes:] [OG :icon_curse::icon_curse::icon_curse:*:icon_succes:] [LG :icon_succes:] [CD+SI :icon_curse::icon_curse:] [SI :icon_curse:] [CD :icon_curse::icon_success-left: :icon_success-right:**] [SI+TS en cours]
*[Histoire-T7C :icon_succes_7:] **[Pénitence :icon_curse:+Funéraille:icon_success-left:]
Posté - Edité
So, to be concrete :

  1. Using an item for no effect other than the banner on one of its cards :
    Allowed (cost -1 pip :icon_d6:)

  2. Double pictographs on a numbox-banner :
    You may use 1, 2 or 0 item flags.
    You can also use several flags (+x) with the same pictographs on a unique card :card_pick::flag_blue_sm: : just check if the result card is valide :card_pick_thumb:.

  3. Bonus cards with banners :
    Just having this :icon_hand_green: card in your satchel :icon_journal: is enough (no specific cost)


(I hope my bad english won't be a source of misunderstanding !)
:resource_fire: Firebird :resource_fire: (Phoenixeux sur TT)
[DV :icon_curse::icon_curse::icon_succes:] [OG :icon_curse::icon_curse::icon_curse:*:icon_succes:] [LG :icon_succes:] [CD+SI :icon_curse::icon_curse:] [SI :icon_curse:] [CD :icon_curse::icon_success-left: :icon_success-right:**] [SI+TS en cours]
*[Histoire-T7C :icon_succes_7:] **[Pénitence :icon_curse:+Funéraille:icon_success-left:]
Posté - Edité
Thank you, Firebird. This is very clear.

Sometimes when there's a rules conflict, the best thing to do is to have the creators weigh in on intent. Having your clarification on the intent of the creators is good enough for me.
Forums/ The 7th Continent/ Rules and Operating Points12 messages